Alberta Pine Shake Homeowners Association

Frequently Asked Questions

 

From February, 1999; with minor updates added on March 14, 2000

Who is responsible for this problem?

We believe that the provincial government of the day failed to serve the best interests of Albertans. They allowed a 'sub-standard' material to be listed in the Alberta Building Code, and we are suffering because of that. The government promoted the use of this defective product.

We believe that the shake manufacturers took advantage of the situation, as did suppliers, builders, roofers, and others.

We have posted about 40 documents on the upper level windows which we interpret to show that our government failed us. The documentation shows lack of testing, improper testing, lack of monitoring and inspections at the mills, poor inspection procedures, unwarranted government investment in the industry, ignored warnings from experts in the industry, and ignored consumers throughout.

Why haven’t we filed a ‘statement of claim’ yet?

The process of collecting information, digesting it, assembling a Consumer Action Group, and negotiating with Alberta Labour took time and considerable effort. The formation of the Association was the next necessary step toward collecting monies for legal action. As of June 4th, 1999 we filed a Statement of Claim in Court of Queen's Bench against the Province of Alberta in the amount of $300 million.

How long will it take to obtain compensation?

The main issues will likely take two years to come before a judge in Court of Queens Bench. That's not to say that a negotiated settlement between the Association and the responsible parties is no longer possible.

Why should I join the Association?

We believe that it will be your single best opportunity to obtain compensation for the financial hardships you have been left with. There is strength in numbers. The Association may be able to obtain a negotiated settlement . . . However, if not, then the funds will be in place to pursue litigation without delay. We are looking into what is called a 'Representative Action', which would require homeowners to sign a Register in order to be eligible for benefits. A pre-requisite for signing the Register would be joining our Association.

Does APSHA have "charitable status"?

No. Our research into that aspect revealed that it would take another two years and mountains of paperwork - while in reality the Objectives of APSHA do not fit the 'charitable' mold.

What happens to the people that don't want to join, will they get the same deal we do if we are successful?

They will have a difficult time pursing their case. They will not have access to our documentation or legal counsel; they would have to build their own case and fund it. They will not be able to sign the Register and obtain any benefits we do.

I live in a condo and I will pay, but my neighbour Bob says he won't, is this fair and why should he be able to hold out because he knows that his roof will get repaired the same as mine?

The answer to this question is the same as for the previous one. But to elaborate, we believe that any action is up to your own condominium association - we cannot make people pay. Your own association needs to come to terms with how the membership will address the need for a new roof. Condo associations not registered with us are on their own with respect to obtaining compensation.

Will we get a monthly newsletter keeping us up to date?

While those who have access to the Internet can follow our activities there, we appreciate the fact that many people cannot do that. We will be sending out newsletters periodically - but not on a monthly basis (it's far too costly).

$100.00 seems like a lot from 30,000 people, why do we need to give so much? Will it really cost $3 million dollars?

The numbers here need to be re-examined. The $100 is the total amount for an owner of a house to pay, while $75 is the amount the owner of a condo or apartment will pay. We believe there are between 20-30,000 homes affected by this problem - but we anticipate having only 15,000 homeowners join the Association.

On a 2-to-1 split (houses over condos), that would provide $1,375,000.

As mentioned, the Membership Fee is assessed to cover our operating costs (an annual amount of $375,000), and the amount left for the legal action is $1M.

Will Calgary be included in this campaign?

Yes, as will all Albertan homeowners, where ever they may be located.

We have plans to provide information nights similar to this one in major centers - such as Calgary, and perhaps Fort McMurray.

Are all you guys paying $100.00?

Absolutely - except for those in condos (they pay only $75).

Does APSHA have any paid members and if so how much do they get paid?

The Association has made provision for one paid position - in this case our President and Executive Director is being paid on an hourly basis. Without this provision, we would not have the commitment, continuity or expertise that is necessary to pursue the objectives of the Association. This provision is in keeping with other societies throughout Alberta.

I live in an apartment and the roof per family ratio is way different then a condo, how much should we have to pay?

We've tried to simplify the formula for payments - and only recognize two types at this time: homes, and condos (including apartments). Apartment owners are expected to pay the $25 membership fee, and the $50 condo fee.

Will your organization try to help with group deals on re-roofing?

Right now we're not doing that, nor planning to do that. It would be difficult to assist in all areas of Alberta, and our volunteers are already giving enough of their time and talents to pursue our present course of action.

Why are we not focussed on the shake manufacturers and builders, they seem to be getting off pretty easy?

They may not get off easily in the end - we have yet to finalize our list of defendants. Following receipt of the 'legal opinion', we will examine what it contains and act accordingly.

There has been a significant change in the industry over the past 10 years - to the extent that there are only six of the original 26 shake manufacturers still in business. As well, some people don't have any documentation to indicate who manufactured their rotting shakes.

Some say the manufacturers and builders were doing only what the government allowed them to do.

What is going to happen to the people that break with the rules and put on asphalt?

This refers to 'architectural guidelines' which exist in many cities and towns. Each situation is unique, and depends on where you live. Local homeowners associations are normally obligated to observe the guidelines.

Some of us chose the roofing material on our rooftops - we believe that the shakes add to the curb appeal and value of the property (as long as they are not untreated pine shakes!)

How do we answer to the people that say, we're a bunch of rich people wanting a hand out?

Many of our members are families just starting out. Some of their homes start in around the $80K mark.

Some are seniors, widows, and cash strapped families who cannot afford this hardship. You could tell those people who are not sympathetic to our cause that similar situations will occur with other building materials in the future, and unless the process is made to change, others (maybe themselves) will be stung the next time.

We are all Albertans, and we should look out for each other regardless of our financial situations. Whether it be the result of a flood, tornado, or rotting roof - most Albertans believe we should stand up for each other.

Should I pay for an engineering study similar to the group from Brookview?

No, we believe we have sufficient research data collected at this point to pursue our course of action. It would not tell us anything new.

Do you really think we have a chance? Do you think we have enough evidence to make a good case?

If we didn't think we had a good chance of obtaining compensation, we would not be here tonight, and we would not be wasting your time or ours.

We believe if you read some of our posters, you will understand our confidence in this case.

Do you think that Cedar is a good choice to re-roof?

All we can do is speak for ourselves. Most of our directors have re-roofed / or soon will re-roof with cedar.

My house was built with treated pine shakes. What can APSHA do for me?

We're sorry, at this point we are focused on the untreated pine problem. While we suspect there may be problems with the treated shakes, we do not have documentation to how long it will survive on rooftops in Alberta. It does not have a proven track record in Canada. Our mandate, is to seek compensation for the untreated pine shakes. However, our actions will serve as a precedence in your situation. If you have any pertinent documentation on the treated product, please share it with us.

I've already replaced my rotting shakes, what happens to me now?

If you can demonstrate that you've had an untreated pine roof replaced, you will be able to participate in any compensation package offered to the Association.  

We simply can't afford to replace our roof right now. What can we do?

Our general experience and research findings indicate that rooftops with the rotting pine are generally not going to leak before the eight year point in the Edmonton area (Calgary is experiencing a slower onset of the rot).

If your roof is beyond that age, you are in a difficult situation. We believe that if there are what could be called 'areas' of rot on your roof - as opposed to individual shakes showing the brown rot, you would be wasting your money on a patch job.

Do we recommend the use of the PQ57 spray?

We agree with the Alberta Labour 'Fact Sheet' on this point, and I quote: "data on its effectiveness as a roof treatment is not available", "Surface treatment is likely to provide limited benefits if existing fungal infection is present", "The manufacturer of PQ-57 advises that it has not been used extensively as a preservative on roofs. It will take several years to obtain definitive information on its long-term effectiveness", "PQ-57 will kill fungus that it comes in contact with. It will not kill fungus in unexposed areas unless the application method is such that it permits PQ-57 to reach these areas", and "It is not known how long a roof will remain fungus free after application."

Can the Association help me with home insurance or bank loans?

We're aware that water leakage attributed to rotting pine shakes most likely will NOT be covered by your home insurance - your pine roof will be assessed as an 'inherent fault'. We're aware that many people won't qualify for bank funding to replace their rotting rooftops. Approximately 1/3 of homeowners cannot qualify for additional loans. This will be a major point in obtaining early compensation.

Will everyone that signed a petition, be contacted to become a member?

Eventually, yes. First though, in order to save on postage and work, we're going to conduct meetings like this and hope that the meetings plus the media coverage will reach most of those respondents. Later, we will reconcile the memberships with the petitions and contact the ones who have not signed up with the Association.

What happens to any leftover money the Association ends up with?

Once compensation has be obtained, any remaining funds will be divided equally among the following charities (Alberta branches):

What can I do to help out?

JOIN UP, SPREAD THE WORD, CALL YOUR MLA!

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